Living Donors Online Message Board
Living Donation Discussion and News => Living Donation Forum => Topic started by: Rob_h on August 27, 2011, 02:25:05 PM
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I have often wondered if my decision to be a donor was somewhat of a RE. And I wonder if any other donors have wondered this too? This is a bit hard to write about for several reasons, 1) I would define a RE being something just outside of the tips of being defined, something that happens that words, logic, and explaining just approch and outline but never are quite "it". 2) I have no religious beliefs, other than being a UU.
So I can give the outline, this happened, then that. And there were these factors at the time and so on. But I am sure I cannot give the experience.
I had been watching the news about Besen Russia and the failure of the resuce of the children hostages. I had been considering being a kidney donor for some time, recieving some lousy family advise to pick a "worthy" person or skip it altoghter. A strong personal belief of mine is non-violence. I took a long walk. While walking I though about the children waiting for help that should have arrived but foolishly never did. Then I thought, if only a few of those children could have been saved, no one would have said, "choose the worthy ones". Then I thought about people on dialysis and how in some way they were like those children, waiting. I then I decided that it did not matter who, that everyone was worthy, and that I was capable of being a donor, right now, no matter what.
So that is my outline. I really don't care if its a RE or just an emotional process on a walk deciding to be a donor, but I did think other donors might find it intestingg, Rob Halverson
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Very interesting story. I truly believe that everything happens for a reason. There is a reason those thoughts went through your mind and there is a reason you are feeling a call to donate. That is very unselfish of you to consider donating. I also had family (wife) that wasn't totally onboard about my donation. But I think that was because she worried that something may go wrong. In the end, she accepted that this was my decision.
I can't say that I had any religious calling to donate. I had a good friend in trouble, somebody needed to help him quickly, and I just happened to be in a position to help. I can say that I had a strong sense of peace and wasn't nervous at all the day of the surgery. I credit that to all of the people who were praying for us.
I can say that I did have a religious experience after the surgery. The day of the surgery, any time a friend, family, nurse or doctor talked to me, they all would comment about what a big sacrifice I was making. The day after the surgery, I had some complications and I can honestly say, from a physical standpoint, it was the worst day of my life (this had more to do with a very bad reaction to the anesthesia and drugs than from the surgery). In any case, I spent the day throwing up, in pain and very uncomfortable. As I lay in bed, frustrated and angry, I said to myself, "so this is what I get for my sacrifice." It was then that I believe God sent me a message. It was at that moment that I thought about Christ's sacrifice on the cross and it helped me to have a better appreciation for what He did for me. I was in a clean hospital with doctors and nurses waiting on me and giving me pain medicine. Christ went though a lot worse without and pain medicine and He was alone and abandoned. It really put things into perspective for me. I'll never forget that and I still think about that a lot.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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I have already described some of the religious aspects of my donation decision/experience in my narration on the "experiences of other living donors" section of this site (title: "Fr. Pat's non-directed donation".) I approached the idea of organ donation as a natural expression of what I already believed and was trying to put into practice (with mixed success). For me, since I took Jesus as my teacher, model and savior, organ donation seemed like a "no-brainer" response to his teachings "Love one another as I have loved you"; "Do to others what you would have them do for you"; "Whatever you did for the least of my brethern, you did for me", etc. I was quite surprised, however, at the deep emotional and spiritual impact that the donation has had, and continues to have, in my life.
My own theory is that since the New Testament states that "God is love", anyone who goes so far as to donate an organ to another out of love will have a "religious experience" of God's love, regardless of what that person's explicit beliefs are, and regardless of what words that person finds to decscribe the experience. Others, of course, may think that this theory is nonsense. But since you posted the question, and your experience, sincerely, I offer my sincere personal responal response.
best wishes,
Fr. Pat
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I am not an overly religious person, but for probably about 4 or 5 years prior to the donation (and prior to the time my husband even became ill), I had this very odd urge or feeling that there was something I was supposed to do - that God wanted me to do something and I just didn't know what it was. I kept telling myself I would surely know when it happened, and to just keep doing what I was doing, and eventually I would find out the answer to this "mystery". I didn't think even think about the donation as that "something". However, after the surgery, I have not experienced that feeling of an unknown duty. Maybe it is a coincindence, or maybe it really was what I was meant to do.
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What I find interesting about your decision to donate Patrick is while it was a "no brainer" from your religious beliefs, you were the one who took those beliefs and became a donor. Not to complain about those who did not, everyone has there reasons and its ok; it may have been a "no brainer"to you, but you are the one who acted, and it makes all the difference in my book. Rob Halverson
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I read a statement once that said "donation is not salvation." And it's kept me very grounded. I'm not saved because I donated. I'm saved because I believe in Jesus Christ and I'm saved by God's grace. Being a Christian, I relied heavily on prayer, God and Jesus Christ to get me through my donation process. I could not have done it without prayer. I felt led by God to donate although I can't say I was eager to do it.
That being said, I believe God finds a way to bring all His sheep into His fold. And if He is reaching out to you through donation, then it's not for me to tell you whether it's a religious experience or not. Only you know that. And if you feel it is, then my guess is...it is.
I can say that donation led me on a path to discipleship. I raise money for the Living Organ Donor Follow-Up Clinic at the UMMC where I donated. I've been led to help other donors with their follow-up care. I talk with other donors regularly and try to help them with the donation process through friendship and prayer. People of all faiths who have a belief in God.
So my religion has played a huge part in my donation. And if it leads someone to believe in God and Jesus Christ, then I absolutely think it was God driven. I respect you for reaching out and I hope you continue to do so.
Best,
Lee Adams (donated July 2007)
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My story in short:
1) I found out on Facebook (of all places) that one of my college professors (from the early 1980s) needed a kidney transplant.
2) Being a Bible-believing Christian, who has sought to follow Christ for 43 years of my almost 50 years on earth, I started praying, "Lord, somewhere, someone has to be a match. Lord, please provide a kidney for Dr Bill."
3) Immediately, the Holy Spirit spoke to me, "You are a match." I immediately said "yes" without hesitation.
4) Some seven months (and a lot of tests, etc) later, we were both admitted to the University of Alabama-Birmingham Medical Center, where I would donate my left kidney to a precious, wonderful man.
5) That was TWENTY-TWO months ago now...and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
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Maybe using the term religious was a bit much. I only meant it in the William James very broad sense, not in the the context of any religious belief systems, of which I know almost nothing. I of course did not donate to become a part of a religious belief or claim religion or salvation. But my only point was did other donors find the experience something in the course of donating that they are still striving to understand, that changed the course of future life events, and that maybe feels at the tips of logic and understanding. Maybe not a "religious" experience, but a an experience that really mattered, thats out of the ordinary. It seems lots of other donors have found this to be the case. If I offended anyone by "religious", my appolgies. Rob Halverson
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There are also people who donate out of an ultruistic wish to help others who do not believe that there is a loving god out there. This is not the place to get into a discussion about it. But I think some people who could benifit from this site may be driven away by seeing people writing about god telling them to donate.
I do not mean to put anyone down for feeling called. What I am saying is non believers may think it is very strange that god is telling you to do things.
Sorry Rob
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There are also people who donate out of an ultruistic wish to help others who do not believe that there is a loving god out there. This is not the place to get into a discussion about it. But I think some people who could benifit from this site may be driven away by seeing people writing about god telling them to donate.
I do not mean to put anyone down for feeling called. What I am saying is non believers may think it is very strange that god is telling you to do things.
Sorry Rob
Different people may feel compelled to donate for different reasons and for whatever those reasons are, it is GOOD that they are donating. They are helping someone else in desperate need. Some may feel a calling by God, some may not believe in God, some may do it as a last chance to save a family member, etc.
I disagree that this discussion may drive people away from this site. That is a very "politically correct" thing to do, but people are honestly sharing why they went about donating. Are some Christians called by God to donate...probably. Are some non-Christians compelled to donate for other reasons...probably. I don't think I am a better Christian for donating and I don't think less of any Christian or non-Christian for not donating. Some people are called to be priest, rabbi's, preachers etc, some aren't. Some are called to donate, some aren't.
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BTW, even if this thread wasn't the intent of the OP, I think it is a good and interesting discussion.
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The experience I had was not one of being "called", lead or guided. I also am not discribing a religious conversion experience. Skip the word "religious" and lets just start over. Did donation have;, before, during or after, a period of time that was very intense, meaningful, life changing and about which you are still striving to understand? So to speak, did donation stir things up for you in unexpected ways?
I am looking for common threads here, not some new form of division. Rob
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My feeling that we, as humans, are all one kinda fueled my fire. If we are all one, then what I do for another, I do for myself. I'd like to think that if I needed a kidney, someone somewhere would feel that same feeling I felt---the non fear of it all. It IS bigger than us. I think that sometimes we are so "used" to the common every day miracles around us that we "miss" it: the magic that is everywhere. It sounds so silly maybe, but the very fact that trees give off what we need, and we exhale some of what they need is magic. How about the way we grow humans from cells so small they can't be seen? Animals do the same thing, and sometimes we act like that's no big deal either. We grow sustainable food right out of the GROUND! The way be build buildings- roads-all these things. Millions of little acts of kindness float around and maybe go unacknowledged because we are so used to some of them, but it's all magic, acknowledged or not. Especially, maybe, when us silly, silly humans do something to reach out and touch another human in love. One of my favorite sayings is a Native American saying: No tree has branches so foolish as to fight amongst themselves. So in that way ...yes. I can *SEE* how BIG living donation is when I see you do it, or her do it, or anyone else do it. I can see the big picture of it, see how not only that person is affected, but their entire lives- their families, their jobs, the people they know that they tell about it. Gosh, the surgeons, nurses....It's ENORMOUS. In a world where tragedy tends to get more air time on TV than the miracles, and where mother nature can reclaim hundreds of thousands of lives in one might wave, or storm....we sometimes forget how our acts of love and kindness really do go on and affect far more people in far more ways than we see. For now.
Before I donated, the night before, I could feel IT. I was overwhelmed with the feeling that perhaps my recipient was feeling, somewhere in the world. I was going to give up a KIDNEY so he could live a little longer. HIS LIFE. I totally and completely affected a universe in another state. That's CRAZY. I can barely really think about it, can't wrap my mind around it.
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The experience I had was not one of being "called", lead or guided. I also am not discribing a religious conversion experience. Skip the word "religious" and lets just start over. Did donation have;, before, during or after, a period of time that was very intense, meaningful, life changing and about which you are still striving to understand? So to speak, did donation stir things up for you in unexpected ways?
I am looking for common threads here, not some new form of division. Rob
Why did you donate? No right or wrong answer, just curious. Glad you did.
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Rob, excellent initial question, and excellent follow up to clarify that "religious experience" was an attempt to describe an indescribable experience you had, and wonder if others have had. If one doesn't feel the words work, but others might to be responsive to his question, please try to be understanding of the difficulties inherent in honest introspection of wordless feelings.
As a Bright, a person with a worldview free of supernatural elements, I do not presume that any supernatural qualities or causes influenced me, occurred, or resulted from my donation. That doesn't mean I didn't hope for it, especially for support during challenging emotional times on my path to surgery. That doesn't mean I don't respect the honest interpretations of Supers, persons with worldviews that include supernatural elements, who say that they found grace, in some form. I make no claim of such, though it was deeply transformative for me.
I found donation a period of time, and ultimately a moment, of profound self discovery. I have been repeatedly surprised in the more than eight years since at how profound and wide ranging are the impacts of my journey on myself and others. It was an unanticipated sharp turn in my life path as I had assumed it would progress, and the twists and turns I can identify as occurring solely because of it keep coming.
I want to be clear about language, and usage, and their impact on behavior and policy. Over the course of the last three years as I sat in on the OPTN/UNOS Board and KidneyCom meetings, I tried to encourage clear language. Just as deceased donor family members have promoted "deceased donor" as preferable to "cadaveric donor," we have succeeded in getting attention and respect for "non-directed donor" and "directed donor." Why should "altruistic" only be afforded to the motivations of non-directed donors? While some may feel there are reciprocal altruistic reasons for their donations, whether directed or not, and while some engage in more commodified exchanges, willingly or less so, these are not required.
We give our gifts because we are able to and choose to respond in this way to an awareness of another's need. No more is needed. The need exists, and has for all human existence. Technology means a response to the need is possible. The available response requires sacrifice by another, regardless of whether appropriately deceased, living, coerced, or compensated. We choose to give a gift. Just as with my 43 gallons of blood donated, and tens of thousands of donations collected at blood drives I've organized, I get it, I understand these people, these are my people. The people who respond, who act as needed once they know of a need. We are in a tiny minority, but multibillion dollar industries and the continued existences of hundreds of thousands, even millions of people depend on us continuing to make these choices.
Did I have a "religious experience" donating a kidney? Do I have one at every one, at any one, of my more than 300 blood donations? Do I have one at my blood drives? Did I have one at national transplantation policy meetings? When I read or post to LDO? I can't say. I don't think so. But my understanding of the phrase suggests all these things could be labeled so, if I chose to. It's your call, as it always is and has been.
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Hi John,
I think in paragraph 3 you are saying much what I am saying, just very uneasy about the terms "religious experience", which is hard to get a handle on. I hope I did not suggest that my walk in some was was a "connection" with any supernatural force, as I have never thought of it in that way, but more like a breakthrough of sorts in which some of the ideas that were holding me back; could I do this without any support, what would happen to my teenage children if I died, how much family crap was I going to have to resist about the "worthy" issue, did I have the time became resolved in that walk and I felt very sure and relaxed about the decision and the challanges it would entail. The point of my post is about the experience being outside of logic, hard to understand, intense, meaningful, real, lasting. Just beyond the tips of ones fingers.
As to why I donated, it was my belief in non violence and the need to make a statement that we are our brother or sisters keepers, as a counter point to the endless violence I was seeing around me. Rob Halverson
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I am donating one week from tomorrow. Last week I had a spiritual experience (my preferred term) where I felt like after 36 years of living I finally knew what was important. Family and friends are everything, forget all the other crap/stuff we surround ourselves with. People even mentioned this noticeable change in me. I am not afraid at all and feel totally at peace. I love telling people what will be happening. I feel that talking about it in turn makes others contemplative of what is important. The act of talking about it with others allows them to take the altruistic "vibe" and spread it around the rest of the day.
And no, I am not a hippy. ;D
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Well maybe just a little.
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Its a bit like falling in love, first the experience, then years of trying to understand it. I can't discribe "it", but I do think there is a common experience that is not just some subjective thing. Read Henry James, Michael Jackson. Something like falling in love. You know it when you see in in a couple, but its pretty hard to discribe. Rob BTW, I also had a change in kind, way of seeing things, what mattered, how I ordered things.
So many of us who are regular posters at LDO created an unusual connection / mission with donation; skipping the hot button of RE, its a special experience that it seems we should look into?. For me, I first wanted to make donation more possible, then when I got sick and thought it might be the donation, more careful, and now, I'm not sure. best wishes, Rob Halverson
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Rob,
Please do not change your verbage. I was not in the slightest offended by what you said and what you asked and was simply responding as best I could. I think it's wonderful you brought in the religious side of donation as I couldn't have done it without prayer, and there are others who feel that way. This isn't about "right" or "wrong." This is about you feeling a religious pull in whatever way it's speaking to you. We all experience God and religion differently. Do not take the word religion out if that's what you felt was the right word to use. It's YOUR religious experience. I shared mine. Others shared theirs. That's why I love this site. No offense taken at all.
Please...follow where you are feeling led. Whether by God, Christ, or any other regligious means...follow it. That's what a religious experience is. Following where YOU are led. Since I'm the one that commented on the word "salvation" I was wondering if you were referring to me. Please know that I was so moved by your question that I talked to my pastor about it. I'm the last person who wants to claim this isn't a religious experience for you, as if you feel it is, IT IS! At one point I became concerned about myself that I'd confuse donation with salvation. Reading that quote kept me grounded is all I was saying. But I can truly tell you that donation took my religion to new levels of commitment.
I hope I better expressed myself this time. :-) Kudos to you for having the guts to bring this into the forefront of discussion.
Best,
Lee
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I agree - excellent question.
For me - there were many factors, I love my brother - and I really felt a "calling" to be his donor from the moment we learned he would need a transplant.
I am not a highly religous person, but went to my Rabbi - not to ask his permission (although I wasnt sure what his position would be) but just to make sure that my decision was one that he thought was a good one (I am a single mom - and was worried about my kids) He told me not only was it a mitzvah (a good deed) to donate, but it was an obligation I had - to help if I could. It really made me feel better, and at peace with my decision.
For me - donating was like giving birth again, it was a rich, wonderful, very spiritual experience.
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Hi Barbara,
I wonder what would have happened if you asked that particular Rabbi about donating and told him that you really didn't want to donate. Would he still have said you were obligated? I am not a Rabbinic authority, but I believe Rabbinic commentary overall is of the opinion that organ donation is not obligatory but as you said a good deed, maybe what some may call Tikkun Olam (bettering the world). Most people translate the concept of mitzvah as a good deed but really it comes from the root word tzaveh which means commanded or obligated. Over the years people have translated mitzvah to good deed. If this was the case, as an observant Jew I would all be obligated to donate a kidney if I am healthy the same way I am obligated in the other commandments. So it really isn't obligatory but rather voluntary. It would be a wonderful act of kindness or "chessed" to do this for someone but in my humble opinion and maybe even some religious authorities one is not obligated to risk their life. There is a lot written in Jewish responsa whether it is even permissible to have elective surgery. Clearly it has now been established that given the minimal risk to one's self it is permissible to undergo this surgery and as you said considered an true act of kindness.
For me I felt a sense of pressure psychologically, emotionally and religiously. There was an enormous sense of guilt if I did not do this and passed up on the opportunity to do a "mitzvah" even one that I may not have technically been obligated in. I felt that if I didn't do it I would not only be disappointing myself and my family, but God as well and deserving of punishment. Every Yom Kippur I ask for forgiveness as I always felt like I fell short of my obligation. Jewish law differentiates between one who is obligated and one who is not obligated in a mitzvah. The concept is: (sounds better in hebrew)"Greater (and the understanding here is reward) is the one who obligated than the one who is not obligated". The one who is obligated deserves more because he/she performed the act because God commanded it whether they wanted to do it or not. This is a very different concept in the transplant setting where the "altruistic" donor (their term not mine) is not expected to do this compared to a family donor.
I take comfort in the fact that no one is perfect and perhaps this was a test for me personally. Did I pass? Not sure. I have a greater appreciation for the story of Jonah (also aptly read on Yom Kippur). Jonah was commanded (that word again) by God to go to the city of Ninveh and tell them to repent. Jonah did not want to do God's commandment (lots of interpretation why) and tried to run from God. Then you get the whole story of the "whale" (great fish). Sometimes it is hard to do what it required of us.
Sorry for going on so long. Don't usually mix religion and transplant on this board but did find the topic thought provoking.
Sherri
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Rob,
I consider myself a very spiritual person and while my belief is that I was "called" to become a donor to someone I had never met, as Father Pat described, my decision was in keeping with my beliefs and when I decided to donate I thought..."if not me, then who and if not now, when?" It did seem like a no-brainer to me also.
It mattered not to me who the recipient was or if they were worthy, I guess I honestly wondered more about whether I was worthy of being so intimately involved in another's life. I felt so strongly about this, I nearly decided not to meet my recipient as I was faced with doubt about being a match, about the success of the transplant in making the recipient's life better or offering some sort of false hope. Ultimately, my coordinator and social worker both talked me into meeting the recipient and his family (I'm so happy I did).
I remember the first night after the surgery, waking in the middle of the night. As I looked out my window at the lights of Minneapolis and the gentle rain coming down, I was overcome with an incredibly unexplainable sense of loneliness and self-doubt. After some time of introspect I came to the realization that I was emotionally overwhelmed and so extremely humbled by the entire experience. I expected to feel like a hero but instead, I felt as though I had somehow encroached on someone else's life's journey. It was then I came to realize, what a miracle of life I had been chosen to experience and how it had certainly, in the space of a day, changed MY life forever.
I recognize this as being moved by the Holy Spirit, although others may call it simply a "feeling", but in the end, what truly matters my friend, is the realization that "life won't wait" and some how, in different ways, we each receive our own calling to do what matters most....to act!
Bless you Rob for listening to the voice inside you and letting it call you to action - good luck in your journey and please keep us posted!
Scott 8)
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Scott,
I don't donate until Tuesday, but I totally get what you mean about intruding on someone journey. During our pre op appointment the other day I was sitting with my friend (the recipient) and his wife. I felt like I was ease dropping on something private. They are really nice and open, but I can't help but feel that I am taking away their privacy. We have the same social circle and everyone is making such a big deal over me and I don't want take anything away from him. He is the one with real battles. How do you feel now?
Tori
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Barbara & Sherri & y'all,
The varying rabbinic opinions in your 2 posts remind of the saying among us Jews, "3 Jews? 5.3 opinions!" (Don't worry about the math, y'all. ;D )
I am studying the Jewish Halakhah (= rulings by rabbinic leaders [hereafter "rabbis"] about religious law, obligations, mitzvah/mitzvot, etc.) regarding living kidney donation. Many different rabbis, many different rulings.
The basic possible categories are: always obligatory without exception; obligatory with rare exceptions; permissible; prohibited with rare exceptions, always prohibited. Although MOST respected rabbis who have written on this topic say living organ donation (or similar self-endangerment) is permissible to save a life, a quite small number have said it is prohibited, and a very few obligatory. Usually the latter ruling is specific for the particular circumstances -- e.g., very little risk to the self-endangering person, or the person is a physician caring for people with an infectious disease (think HIV/AIDS). The Rabbi for Barbara S probably thought (or Barbara told him) that the risk was quite small, that the recipient was her brother, that she felt a strong responsibility for his health, and that she really wanted to donate her kidney to him. Thus, her Rabbi's ruling was not just permissible but obligatory for her with her specific circumstances. His ruling of donation being "obligatory" for Barbara S was not necessarily a ruling for all potential living kidney donations, or even all sister-to-brother donations. (I have several good, comprehensive, references on the Halakhah of living organ donation; if you want them, please e-mail me.)
BTW, Sherri, I am a non-directed donor, but never apply the term "altruistic" to only non-directed donors (i.e., not applying it to directed donors). The differential application of "altruistic" to only non-directed donors was/is done primarily by transplant center or similar officials, although less so recently as Clark noted in his post. In fact, most non-directed donors I know apply "altruistic" to all donors, as I do. Clark & I had found we had independently arrived at the same conclusion on this topic. :)
Bill
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Although I have already posted my personal experience on this topic, I thought I might add an observation that occurs to me on reading the experiences of many others.
It seems to me that most, if not all, living donors find the donation to be a profound and moving experience. Some (like myself) already have from our particular religious beliefs/traditions some ready-made vocabulary that helps us make sense of what we are experiencing and to express it somewhat. Other donors may experience "it" (as someone has wisely said here) but not as yet have the right words for them to really express what they have experienced. There are realities that not even the greatest poet can adequately express.
I recall someone sharing a teaching she had received from a Buddhist guide. The guide noted that if you burn your hand on hot stove your other hand will instantly reach out to hold/comfort the burned hand. You don't even think about it. It just happens because the body knows that all the parts are one. He said that is what "compassion" means. All people are one. If one persons suffers, the reaction of another person OUGHT to be to instantly reach out to help/comfort, without even having to think about it. Sadly, we can build up so much indifference and egoism that we block that instant and automatic response of compassion. Organ donation is, I think, letting that natural compassion flow and make "it" a reality rather than an idea. It can help us discover (perhaps to our surprise) who and what we really are in the universe, and that can be described, I think, as a "religious" experience.
Fr. Pat
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I am not the LEAST bit ashamed to say that God the Holy Spirit (Third person of the Trinity) spoke to my heart about becoming a living kidney donor, in answer to prayer.
Does the Lord speak to everyone? My answer is "Yes, if they are willing to listen and obey..."
It was the hand of the LORD that led me through this entire experience. I knew that I could be the "answer" to a prayer that I had prayed for someone to become a kidney donor for my former professor. I was that answer...
It was the wonderful people of God who were praying for me through the entire process (which took a lot longer than I personallly thought it should have...)
It was the hand of God that REFUSED to let me "rush this process"....because (looking back), if I had "done it my way"...it would have probably been disastrous--or at least very problematic---on so many fronts.
Yes, this was very much a "religious experience." One of obedience for me...
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This is a wonderful, stimulating discussion which I'm enjoying immensely. Here's my two cents.
I believe we walk through life with sort of a sphere of influence, like a space around us that is ours to affect for good, to do our best in. Our part is to keep our eyes, ears and heart wide open and do the next right thing as it gets presented to us. Heather came into my sphere of influence. It was always the most natural thing, the logical next step, to give her my kidney. The spiritual experience in this for me is a deep sense of rightness, of "well done", but not of heroism. Being a kidney donor to Heather was in my sphere; it wasn't in anyone else's -- they have their own set of "next right things" to do which TO ME look like heroism.
That sense of "well done" is powerfully addictive for me; I want to keep getting it, and intend to spend the rest of my days with eyes, ears and heart wide open.
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Well said Shelley. 8)
Scott
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Shelley,
Thank you for your donation! -- and for your e-mail. If I understand what you wrote, your "religious experience" was before, not after, your donation. If that is not what you meant, I apologize for not understanding.
In any case, that was my own history. After having an "ah-ha" moment that I could be a non-directed donor, I first read all the research there was to read about the safety of being a living donor. I was not a risk-taker, far from it. And, of course, living kidney donation is not "safe" -- nothing is completely safe -- but I found it was "safe enough." Once past that, I became increasingly convinced that donating was "right" for me to do. (I did not want to donate, however, if further testing showed it was not safe enough for me after all, or if my kidney would not really help the recipient.) My self-understanding became "I am a donor" -- and the to-be-donated kidney was no longer mine, but I was just a temporary custodian of another's kidney & I must take special care of it! To donate was my Jewish ethics, "inherited" from my father and what he had done all his life. I would call that a "religious experience" before donating, that led to my donation -- even if others might not call it that. :)
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I am taken with your comment about your donation being connected with your parents. I am quite amazed at how often the children are living/resolving/striving to resolve the parents life issues. In some ways I wanted to "set right the moral ledger", but its far afield from the "yes I can" experience that lead to this interesting discussion. best wishes, Rob Halverson
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Rob,
Thanks for your comment.
I was just continuing to emulate behavior I had long admired and that had undergirded much of what I had done all my life -- like being a family doc & being in the Indian Health Service my entire medical career (and now, working for a Tribal College, Northwest Indian College). My father did, and I try to do, "pay forward" for all that we have received. I am impressed that for many living donors, donation was "more of the same" -- a quantum "more," but nevertheless, "of the same."
Bill
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Hey folks,
I can trace my desire to donate back to a trip that I took to Morocco in 2005. I was traveling from Agadir to the Marrakech and while at the Tizi n Test pass in the Atlas mountains I was struck my how beautiful the whole place was. It occurred to me that there were people in my family that would never see such beauty (because none of them fly) and then I realized that there were people who didn't have their health as I did and they would never see such beauty. Then it occurred to me, I ** COULD ** help someone and like that, I realized that I could donate a kidney.
Why did I think this? I don't know, it just happened.
I had been donating platelets before that so I guess I had been in a donating mindset naturally.
I wouldn't say it was a religious motivation though but what do I know? Until 1997 I was an atheist and a hard core one at that. Without going into great detail my father passed on in 1997 and that was when I started following the buddhist path. I have since done monastic study and although I am not a religious man, I do believe in the infallibility of karma. Call it reaping what you sow, the law of cause and effect, etc., etc.
I find these days that although I don't accept a deity as a given, I do not rule it out either. For me I think it's analogous to pondering the architect while standing in a burning house.
I think all my life I just had to give myself permission to accept that I don't know the answer and it was then I guess I found peace.
So is He guiding me? Quite possibly. The Lord works in mysterious ways and since I was in Morocco, maybe he asked Allah a favor since I was in his neighborhood. He probably has a great sense of humor. ;D
Julian
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"The guide noted that if you burn your hand on hot stove your other hand will instantly reach out to hold/comfort the burned hand. You don't even think about it. It just happens because the body knows that all the parts are one."
Thank you Fr. Pat. I could not put it into better words. That's exactly the experience, that's exactly what I felt when I found out my friend needed a kidney.
I think RE is the best way to describe the feelings I've been having (when I'm not angry) and even though I believe in nothing (no gods, no deities, nothing supernatural) I still have the same emotional experience as someone who is religious. I know, because I used to be religious. I feel like nothing has been more clear in my life. The lines connect so blatantly "She needs a kidney, I have a kidney" and while I am a little scared, I feel oddly calm about this decision and I am usually very very indecisive. I mentioned before that I wish I was religious because it would be so much easier to describe why I feel the way I feel. It's hard to tell my mom I'm doing this because evolution is telling me to.
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Stumbled across this thread while looking for something else. To me, this thread represents us at our best in many ways. A deep question, likely uniquely related to our shared experience. Kind responses from many widely varied viewpoints. Considered, articulate positions, on topic cross talk among those replying and the original poster, and reflections amplifying prior statements over months. I never see anything remotely like this on Facebook.
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I don't know if I can speak of a religious experience, because I don't consider myself religious. I'm a pretty firm believer in the law of thermodynamics but that's about it. I've often joked that the donation was me jumping the gun on my atoms being recycled into something else.
Maybe because of my lack of belief in a higher power or life after death, there was a time when I struggled quite heavily with depression and the sense that nothing mattered, that the world would be better off without me and the usual self-depreciating spiral of negative thought that can happen. It got bad enough for me to seriously contemplate suicide. Thankfully I got wonderful help and I think I got out of it knowing a lot more about myself.
And in a way, even though the depression happened more than 10 years ago, giving a kidney gave a certain meaning to my life. I didn't set out for it to be something as life changing as it turned out to be. It's just something I felt compelled to do. If I could then I -had- to do it, often struggling to explain rationally the drive I felt to donate.
And now, all those old thoughts that my life didn't matter, didn't have an impact, were all measurably proven wrong. To someone somewhere, it mattered, big time. I won't purport to have found the meaning of life, but seeing how life affirming donation felt, it helped me understand that meaning and happiness, doesn't magically happen or isn't found in a bank account, it's not even inside you. It's inside others and how we make them happier.
Maybe it's sort of post-donation high that will subside over time but I've found that I'm far happier post donation. It's like a weird little invisible badge of bad-assness that my self-esteem can hang on to when the going gets rough. It's the one accomplishment that nobody or nothing, not even depression, can ever take away from me.
So, religious experience? I don't know. But definitely life changing.
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I donated on February 12, 2014 and my donation was very much a result of my religious views. As a Christian it is my responsibility to "not with hold good from those to whom it is due when it is within your p ower to act" (Proverbs 3:27). My recipient and I attend the same congregation. He and his family never asked anyone to test or try to donate. They simply asked for prayers. My husband and I didn't think twice about testing. I knew from the beginning that I was going to be a match I just knew. I only told my husband this because I thought others would think I was crazy. However, I was a PERFECT match. Because of this, I was never scared or nervous. The entire process, I only focused on God's will. If it was his will it would happen, if not it wouldn't. My recipient and I are both doing great. It strengthens my faith to look across the aisle at church and see him worshiping with his lovely family. God is so good!