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Author Topic: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people  (Read 7056 times)

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Offline Rob_h

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did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« on: October 01, 2011, 09:22:49 AM »
I did to a suprising degree to me.  My guess is its so non mainstream and unconventional.  It seemed at times an afront to the existing moral structure, "the way most people think about these things".   I see alot of it in some of the discussion that came raining down on Leah regarding her recent decision to donate.  "Save it for your child", "Save it for a close family member", "would he/she do the same for you", "is he/she 100% deserving" seem to be part of the conventional moral equation that doantion seems to challange.  I tend to think at the bottom of it is a huge split between folks who believe at least for a moment, that we are our non related brother or sisters keeper; and those who believe its largely everyone for themselves (or at most thier family).  BW, Rob Halverson

Offline jatopa

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 09:51:23 AM »
I have had nothing but support from my friends and from the coworkers I've chosen to discuss this with.  THe only resistant person was the intended recipient, my brother, but he has become convinced that this is an ethical procedure.  It has been quite a journey so far. 

Offline shelley

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 02:08:30 PM »
The only person that was annoyed was my boss.  His first reaction when I told him I was going to donate a kidney was, "What would you want to do THAT for?"  and his second was "How does this affect your job? (translation:  me)"  It DID affect him; he had to do my job while I was gone and I'm sorry about that, but... I guess that's why he makes the big bucks.  Also, he's an accountant and I guess donating a kidney doesn't balance out on some spreadsheet somewhere.

It didn't bother me though because everybody else was so positive.

Offline WilliamLFreeman

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 02:36:45 PM »
Y'all,

I told my boss, President of the Northwest Indian College, at the start of my evaluation process.  She was supportive from the beginning.  She is that kind of person.  :)  And, like many American Indian people, she had a close family member on dialysis due to diabetes.

The reaction of one close relative of mine was concern -- in effect that I might develop kidney disease later on.  My Mom said she would like a candle for me at Mass.  (Parents don't want any child to die before they do.)  I think both reactions came out of caring and concern for me.

Bill
Bill - living kidney donor (non-directed, Seattle, Nov 24, 2008), & an [aging] physician  :-)

Offline rdr321

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 06:14:51 PM »
  What I heard more than once was, "I would donate to a family member but not to a stanger". I never liked hearing that. I agree with  Rob. It is not normal to donate a organ. It is going against mainstream morality. It makes alot of people uncomfortable.
 Love God, Love Your Family, and Love Your Country. But remain indifferent or even hurtfull towords those not in thier group. I think this is where most people stop and believe it is virtuous and correct. So many people are hurting and killing each other that are very good at those three things.
   I feel very fortunate to have in my mind. To be willing to give freely and experiance pain and loss of income  for a complete stranger. No thought of getting anything back. I don't think I can take credit for that. It is just how my mind works. Probably the same as it works for those who are offended by someone donating a organ.
       Rick

Offline Rob_h

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 07:02:27 AM »
Just so we don't think all accountants are incapable of understanding donors, I am a CPA. b.w. Rob Halverson

Offline shelley

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 12:14:33 PM »
Ha ha Rob!  Now I know there are some accountants with heart!  You've restored my faith in the profession!

Rick, what you wrote is absolutely true and I agree.
Quote
Love God, Love Your Family, and Love Your Country. But remain indifferent or even hurtfull towords those not in thier group. I think this is where most people stop and believe it is virtuous and correct. So many people are hurting and killing each other that are very good at those three things.
  Nail ~ head ~ bang!

Offline Scott337

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2011, 05:04:09 PM »
Although I had heard from some of my family and friends, the proverbial "I can understand doing it for your family but someone you don't even know?", but I attributed this to conventionality of mainstream thinking and perspective.  While I didn't encounter anyone with an overt attitude of annoyance, I did find that some were very uncomfortable discussing the issue.  They appeared to be at a loss of what to say, other than "wow, that's incredible that you'd do something like that for someone else", etc...  I likened it to telling someone you had a terminal illness; You know, that awkward silence and the look on their face making you feel like they were certain to vomit, say something really insensitive or run.  

I'm thinking there are many people who WONDER what they would do if confronted with a situation where they had to make a decision to act to save someone's life (helping at a car accident scene, saving someone from drowning or from a burning building). I'm guessing providing a gift-of-life through organ donation was never one of those scenarios.

While we are wired to be caring and compassionate to others, it occurs to me,  many may possess the will but not necessarily the ability or capacity to act when called upon.   At any rate, those of us who have experienced the incredible feeling of being so intimately connected to another person in such a way as the donation of a living organ, it may be more important to ask ourselves what we can do to educate, encourage and support those who may be open to acting in such a special and important way.   What a great and thought-provoking question this was.    Thanks Rob   -   GOOD HEALTH to ALL!

Scott    8)  
Scott

Offline Rob_h

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2011, 07:22:09 PM »
Hi Scott, 

I tend to think non related kidney donation is a moral question a little different in kind from what would I do if someone was in a burning house.  We can all assume that we would all run in and strive to save the person in the house in the discussion of that situation.  But the kidney donation is a put your cards on the table situation and so its different it seems to me.  A lot of people I have been in contact with do just say they would for a first degree relative, maybe for a distant relative but not someone outside without a family connection.  I donated to a stranger, made sense to me. best wishes, Rob Halverson

Offline ohtobeahayes

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 02:18:48 PM »
Yes, I feel that way. I was well supported, but just as often as not I would hear someone gufaw at it.  I am used to it since this isn't the first "crazy" thing I've done that has "offended" someone before. Maybe part of it is that we (that's a huge generalization) tend to immediately apply a thing to ourselves....when I was in the surrogacy program women couldn't stop themselves from immediately telling me why they couldn't do that, or how badly they wished they could and then list all the reasons they couldn't.. It was the strangest thing at the time. I tried to find ways to talk about it without making them feel defensive somehow.  And that was just the people CLOSE to me. I decided quickly to not talk about it publicly. The kidney donation did the same thing- I try to tell people that it doesn't mean ANYTHING that they can't/won't do it...I have a really, really hard time donating blood, and a really, really easy time having surgery, that's all. :) I quit my corporate job when I had to go back into the office after working from home for so many years without having something else immediately lined up (I watch my nieces and nephews who were not born yet then), and you would have thought I directly challenged my co worker in regards to putting his dreams on hold. He stomped away huffing "You have a family to look out for, I hope it's worth risking them to just go do whatever you want to!" What!?  For the first time since being 14 years old I am getting 3 months off and it isn't because I had a baby or major surgery and you accuse me of risking my family's well being?! WHAT?!
I bet you anything he has a bucket list the size of Texas, and he thinks he's stuck waiting til he's retired to get to it.
Oops! Was I ranting? hehe I didn't mean to. People wonder if something is "wrong" with them that they don't even want to do some of the things that other people do, and it makes them defensive. It doesn't need to. Everyone gives in their own way, is on their own path and is needed in the world desperately just as they are.
Nicki
Be the change!
Nicki

Offline Clark

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 11:06:29 AM »
Thanks for bringing this up, Rob.  You've reminded me of a remark one of my close friends made to a group of our mutual friends when I wasn't present, but was told about later. They had, during a long, rambling discussion during a reunion of sorts shortly after I donated, started talking about charity, philanthropy, and volunteerism. My friend said, "What can we do to top John? He's set the bar so high, now!"  Yes, it was a guy among guys, and they had been one-upping each other competitively.  I'm told the reactions were groans and mock despair of ever being able to measure up in this arena again.  Yes, they revealed that in a way that they were annoyed, or felt their considerable aggregate good works paled in comparison, chilling their justified warm mutual admiration of what nice guys they'd turned out to be over the years. 

This conversation gets brought up from time to time when a few of us get together, and I reassure them how much I admire their various and amazing gifts to society and individuals. This confirms and helps remind me that while donation is different, and unique, it is not alone among admirable acts.  When in such conversations, I have often said, truly, that my kidney donation, while challenging, transformative, and leading to unexpected further progressive activities, was a one off.  It's done, no reload, no repeat, the crux of the division in time we all seem to feel so clearly, before vs. after, and the well spring of past surgical depression too many of us grapple with.  Without Michael's creation and dedicated maintenance of LDO, where would so many of us be?

I am personally much more amazed and proud of my personal persistence over decades as a blood donor and community blood drive organizer.  Taking nothing away from how important to my recipient my donation to her was, or how delighted I am with her continued excellent health, I am still on the front lines with this.  My platelet donations, O negative, CMV negative, most often go directly to the pediatric oncology unit at Children's Hospital.  My donation rate of 24 times a year, the maximum the FDA permits, every other Friday morning, is augmented by my rich platelet density.  I've been giving three units per donation, triples, for more than a month now, after dropping back to doubles mysteriously after I broke my leg more than two years ago.  My personal 72 units per year seem great, but it's the community drives that really amaze.  I now organize eight different drives, two of them two day events, and help bring nearly 1,000 units of whole blood and packed red cells into the supply each year.  I do my best to make clear my appreciation to the thousands of potential donors I encounter, because for me, it's all about treating donors, donor candidates, respectfully, appreciatively, and honestly. 

The three organizations I shill for, the ARC, MGH, and Children's, welcome my efforts, but none have really comprehended or adopted my philosophy or approach.  Even in the blood biz, the professional's attention and motivation are focussed on the product and the eventual recipient as the patient, not primarily the healthy human being right in front of them.  UNOS and the OPTN aren't alone in being persistently tone deaf about this.  It's institutional, in the arrangement of priorities, protocols, and economic constraints, but it's also cultural.  Altruism is deeply suspicious, hard to credit as genuine, often a ruse or mask (Trojan Horse, anyone?).  Even if accepted and true, there is then the discomfort of appearing inadequate in comparison, a troubling, often unacknowledged or unacceptable sensation, resulting in inappropriate overreactions, such as laughter or ridicule, dismissal, rejection, or objectification.

I value all of you, active posters for your courage, eloquence, and points of view, and lurkers because you're engaged and interested.  Believe it.  This is not one-upmanship, as I am daunted by the gifts so many give.  Annoyed?  Sorry.
Unrelated directed kidney donor in 2003, recipient and I both well.
620 time blood and platelet donor since 1976 and still giving!
Elected to the OPTN/UNOS Boards of Directors & Executive, Kidney Transplantation, and Ad Hoc Public Solicitation of Organ Donors Committees, 2005-2011
Proud grandpa!

Offline Rob_h

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 05:30:26 PM »
Being a parent of a child with kidney failure, dialysis and then a transplant was different in kind, but like your being a blood donor and organizer Clark, was far more challanging/demanding, far reaching (I changed my occupation to handle it) than the one time issues around being a kidney donor.  There are a few of us parents of kidney failure children who are reg. posters here and my guess all would agree, its an extraordinary experience.  BW, Rob

Offline jstx

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Re: did it seem that your being a donor annoyed people
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 01:46:00 PM »
I can't say that it annoyed anyone but created a lot of concern amongst my family and close friends.  Most of them supported me though.  I did lose a couple of friends over my decision to donate (at least that is why I think they walked away from the friendship--they never said for sure but it was right when I'd discussed my intent to donate that they dropped out of my life).  Guess they weren't "real" friends anyhow.  I can understand them having concerns but I would hope that we are all adults and can discuss those concerns.  I, certainly, would have been open to it.  It was odd to me that the people I "dreaded" telling because I was afraid of their reactions were the ones that received the news most positively.  I was constantly surprised because it was usually the opposite of what I thought it would be.  It has been interesting to see how different people react.  Nikki-I'm like you----I have a very hard time giving blood, but don't mind surgeries.  I've always said I don't like needles (and my veins are teeny tiny and difficult to work with) but if you knock me out, I'll let you take whatever you want!   ;D  Thankfully my surgeon didn't take advantage of that and remove part of my liver or anything without asking!!  :D
Donated left kidney on 6/6/11 to a recipient I found on LDO
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Baltimore, MD

 

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